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Questions for Colin
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Questions for Colin
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The tree is the heart of any saddle. What it is made of,
and how it is shaped, determines how it feels for both rider and horse. Wood and Steel are
two of the oldest ingredients used by saddle makers. Attila the Hun was the first to make
a tree of wood around the year 340 and because of this ruled the world from the wall of
China to the Danube. Medieval Knights introduced steel and thus the world's first
wood/steel tree was born, around 1640.
For the rider, this tree offers unique comfort. Webbing pulled up in the gullet and across
the seat forms a hammock, which mean the rider's rear bones never hit anything hard. They
are in a sling! This fact also helps the horse because when a descending backside collides
with an ascending saddle the energy of the impact is lateralized!
Wood/Steel offers unlimited possibilities in fitting the horse. The gullet can be easily
spread in a press or narrowed with a come-along. (Only experts Please!)
For many complex and various reasons they are also easy on the horse for the horse to
wear. They give slightly to accommodate back movement.
These trees are also relatively easy to repair.
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Fenders for hundreds of years have been standard on
western-style saddles. An English-style high boot is not necessary for leg
protection. Traditional
western fenders Fenders for hundreds of years have been standard on
western-style saddles. An English-style high boot is not necessary for leg
protection. Traditional
western fenders are hung over the "rail" of the tree. This means they have to be
unbuckled and unthreaded to be removed from the saddle. An important safety feature of
Australian saddlery is that fenders - or any other system of carrying a stirrup - is
suspended from a hook. This is called a stirrup suspension bar. The design means there is
an excellent chance the fender will pull off the hook should the rider get caught in a
"drag".
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The
Patrol Poley
has stirrup suspension bars
system.
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The
Combo Poley and the
Darwin Poley both have over-the-rail suspension.
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All fenders used in the fleece-lined saddles have Blevin
- style buckles.
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Saddle makers have been stuffing panels for centuries.
Originally, doe hair was used but as that became difficult to obtain, hair from more
commonly slaughtered animals grew popular. Today stuffing materials include a range of
acrylics. There are pluses and minuses to using natural fibers versus man-made fibers.piece of animal
hair liberates a small amount of heat, which is why sheep can be cool in scorching heat!
For the same reason, people living in Middle Eastern deserts wear wool to protect
themselves from the sun! Another plus to animal hair is that it conforms more quickly to
the shape of the horse - the basic reason stuffing is used in the first place. The down
side of natural hair is that it requires maintenance - fairly regular "AWLING" to make sure it does not pack down hard. Because once it
does pack rock-hard, it must be replaced. The upside of acrylic flocking is that it does
not pack as qui" to make sure it does not pack down hard. Because once it
does pack rock-hard, it must be replaced. The upside of acrylic flocking is that it does
not pack as quickly (but it, too, if left unattended will pack like concrete). It requires
less awling. Another plus: acrylic is lighter than animal hair, thus reducing the overall
weight of the saddle. The down side of acrylic flocking is that instead of LIBERATING
heat, it acts as a barrier to heat. Which is why, in the building trade, it is commonly
used in various forms for insulation. Another plus, as far as saddle manufacturers are
concerned, is it costs much less than natural hair, and is more readily available.
Stuffing also comforts to the rider, who is actually sitting on two pillows
under the saddle. Saddle Co. means the
saddle has been design by us and manufactured at our direction in India. All Classics must
meet our exact specifications. Our Classics are backed with the Australian Stock Saddle
Co. guarantee. (Many other Indian Saddles on today's market are our REJECTS!
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Our key Indian saddlers have been trained in the U.S. by
us to ensure quality control.
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The leather used in the Classics ranges from buffalo hide
tanned to European standards - to genuine Australian steer hide.
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All fittings are solid brass.
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Awling should be done to balance the saddle, or to
simply prevent the stuffing from going hard. If for example, the saddle drops down in the
front (common from aggressive riding, where the rider is taking a lot of stirrup weight)
the stuffing should be awled forward, to lift up the front, and thus return the saddle to
its original balance. If it goes down at the back (very unusual) stuffing can likewise be
awled back to lift that section. Stuffing can also be moved to make the saddle fit better.
If the saddle is "bridging - meaning a palm can be slipped up under the center when
it is on the horse's back - then stuffing must be awled into that low area to fill the
gap. But awling is more like fine-tuning. It cannot correct a hopelessly fitting tree.
If you do not have access to a proper saddler's awl, then make one from a thin-shank
Phillips head screwdriver. Grind it down until it has a smooth extremely sharp point. Use
fine-grain paper to finish the job. A common garden weeder makes a reasonable stuffing
rod.
For Precise instructions and technique on the art of
Awling contact us. Expert information free.
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Australians make the best whips in the world because,
quite frankly, they're the last whip culture.
Siberian horsemen are said to have used shot-loaded whips to stun wolves. That was a long
time ago. Florida stockmen used whips; thus the nickname, "Florida cracker". But
the number of people who use whips in America to work cattle is minute compared to the
number using other means.
In Australia, MOST stockman working cattle carry a whip. They see no point in the
alternative: making weird noises, yelling, or jumping up and down in your saddle waving a
hat.
One crack from a whip will move your biggest bull from here to there in about the same
time it takes for an echo to die in the timber.
Whips are awesome, especially in the hands of an expert. They are never used to actually
strike cattle.
The very finest of Australian whips are made from kangaroo hide, which is woven around a
tapered leather core. Good braids are tight and even, in strands that start with multiples
of eight and go all the way to 32! Good whips move like snakes, rolling easily, carrying
their curl at ever-increasing speed right to the end of the popper, where an explosion is
caused by the sudden release of energy. The whip at that point is travelling at some 1.200
feet per second! Interestingly, Australians call their whips "stock
whips" not because they are used to work cattle, but because of the 18" stock,
or handle, which becomes an extension of the human arm to deliver greatly increased
leverage.
The whip was the first man-made object to go through the sound barrier.
COLIN DANGAARD is no stranger to video. He once had his
own talk show on cable television. So it is no accident he has put together a video that
is both informative and entertaining. KATHY KADASH, Associate Editor of WESTERN HORSEMAN,
writes: "Dangaard's delivery is good and so is the sound and picture quality. He
doesn't endorse any one kind of Australian saddle, and the film is not commercial in
nature. It's a good, educational film and just the ticket for anyone contemplating buying
a 'down under' variety of saddle."
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Now to answer your technical question: why the second strap on the halter
bridle, set back four inches behind the ears. Several reasons:It gives more
strength to the ring to which you attached a snap that is at the end of a lead
line that is, most commonly, attached to the horse's neck in, say, a "mounty's
knot". If you had just one strap going over the poll, along with a throat latch
that has very little strength, the unit is not as secure. ALTHOUGH, a determined
horse will certainly break my halter bridle in a pull-back, as he will break ANY
leather halter bridle -- or even a sturdy regular leather halter. Which is why
very expensive horses are pastured ONLY with leather halters. Nylon halters that
do not break can cause great injury in a pull-back. Such an incident crippled a
fine horse I used to steeplechase. Got spooked by a truck backfire. Never raced
again. Now can barely walk. But perhaps the most important reason for the second strap is that ....you
have your horse tied to a tree via the lead line, with bit and reins removed,
and you're having lunch, and he decides to scratch his sweaty head on the tree .
Halter bridles that go over only the poll will rub off easily . And that is you
walking home. In the bush, that stroll could be 50 long miles! Not something you
would be doing while also whistling. When he rubs his head with our Australian
halter bridle, the second strap catches behind his ears, and the whole head
piece stays in place.
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If you are a great rider, an Australian stock saddle
will improve your form even more! If you work and break horses professionally, this will
speed up your program - plus offer you the safety EVERYBODY needs with new horses. It is
the careless professional who ignores a chance to work more safely! If you are a beginner
rider - or somebody getting back into the sport after years of not riding - the Australian
stock saddle will give you the confidence you need. People learn best and quickest when
they are ENJOYING something. They learn the least when they are afraid.
If you ride trails, then the Australian stock saddle is the piece of equipment most suited
to that activity. In fact, it is the ONLY saddle ever designed in the world whose primary
function is to keep the rider in the saddle. Western saddles were designed to rope off of.
English saddles were designed for dressage, and for clearing fences. In the bush,
Australian stockmen don't rope cattle (too slow!! too dangerous!!) and they certainly
don't jump fences that have perfectly functioning gates! What they do is ride hard and
fast on some of the roughest country on the planet, trying to turn cattle that often have
never SEEN a man. They're wild. It simply never occurs to an Outback stockman to tie one
of THEM to their saddle. They gather them with WHIPS. (Ask Colin about
WHIPS - HE'S AN EXPERT!!).
Increasingly, riding in the Australian bush is starting to compare with riding in the
hills of other civilized countries where urban sprawl has gobbled up all the flat land.
Consider: Trail riders have changed. They've grown older - old enough to have the money it
takes to keep a horse, yet still healthy enough to enjoy them. Terrain has changed. Urban
development has gobbled up all the flat lands, sending the pleasure rider into the hills.
Pleasure riding has changed. In the hills, you're no longer alone. You share the trails
with screaming cross-country bikes and hikers flashing brilliant slickers as you traverse
cliffs. And riders cresting the peak of their earning curve have more time to spare, so
they're riding longer. While adventurous, they sensibly look towards minimizing personal
risk. No surprise, then, that the Australian Stock Saddle has rocketed in popularity. It's
a piece of equipment that is actually hard to fall out of; a saddle ladies can lift and
horses can wear for long hours.
To survive on the trails, that skirt cities today you need to be well-horsed, well
-schooled - and mounted for security.
Heavier than an English saddle, but lighter than a Western roping saddle, the Aussie
saddle rides on trails better than either. |
We fit that saddle to mules a lot! We do not deal with
"gullet measurements", because it is not accurate enough. For example: where
exactly do you measure the gullet. Three inches down, four inches down, or five
inches down? And what if the points of the tree go down seven inches? We deal
only with the ANGLE of the gullet, and make sure this angle is the same as the
angle of the animal's withers. Then we deal with LEVEL of saddle. That is the
most accurate way to place a saddle or a horse, a mule a donkey, a zebra;
whatever. I have now fit over 86,000 animals, a great number of them mules, and
I have yet to find the animal I could not fit. Mules are actually very, very
easy. Send us wither tracings and I will tell you what would be the best saddle
to work with.
Cheers, Colin D.
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A thousand years late,
draft and draft crosses are gaining in popularity around the world as
regular riding mounts. More are being ridden today than are pulling.
 In
the age of Chivalry --- 1,000 to 1,600 --Dr Brian Gwartz of Los Angeles
would have been clad in armor and riding a cold-blooded charger in France
or England , galloping off to kill somebody.
Today he breeds Irish Drafts in training for the Olympics. Hes looking to
plunder gold.
Dr Gwartz is not surprised that draft horses, and their many crosses, are
finding a new and wonderful place in the modern world of recreational
riding.
As he explains:
I like the cross that
results when you can mix the athletic ability of a thoroughbred with the
placid power of a draft. Such a horse is easy to train. It has a calm nature
and wants to please.
Dr Gwartz foundation stallion is a 2,500-lb Shire , a mount he has used for
many duties, including foxhunting.
He attributes some of the new demand for bigger horses to the basic fact
that people are getting bigger. Dr Gwartz is no lightweight himself.
 He
once rode as the worlds heaviest steeplechase jockey, weighing in at
some 250 lbs.
I saw him race, and can report he
never lost for lack of courage.
There is no question, bigger people feel more comfortable on bigger
horses, he adds.
Scott Sackett, of Krum, Texas, is using his 17.2hh , 2,000 lb Percheron
stallion, Black The Great, to cover thoroughbred and Arabian mares to build
sport horses. They can jump, and they can gallop. In my world, thats what
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A potential customer asks if the Muster Master will work on a
Tennessee Walker.
Colin replies:
If you take a 15" Western saddle, you would take a 14 l/2" Muster Master.
However, we still need your weight and height, so we can be sure of the seat
size. We also need wither tracings of the horse. We fit gaited horses on a daily basis. Our saddles work GREAT on all
gaited horses, because when the rider sits back, as needs to happen with
this horse, the front end is lightened, and the "fans" on the back of the
tree spread weight out over a large area, lowering pounds there per square
inch. The front gullets of ALL our saddles are flared out, so the bearing
surface of the tree is actually three inches back from the leading edge of
the saddle. That said, I will add that many people
who own gaited horses are under the mistaken impression that the scapular
moves back 6", or more! It actually moves back half that distance in full
outreach. Try it yourself. Lift the front leg of the horse and see how far
it goes back. It is only 3". Wither tracings
are necessary because Tennessee Walkers vary greatly in the shape of the
wither. Another popular misconception is that Tennessee Walkers are all
the same. Not so. They just move in similar fashion. Like all other
breads, their back profile varies greatly, and from horse to horse.
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Frieda, G'Day! I am attaching a picture of a 16" seat Muster Master
tree.
As
you can , the length of this tree is 20". ( a typical Western
tree in this size is about 2" longer; a typical English tree is
2" shorter) For each inch the seat goes up in size, regardless
of type of saddle, add another inch to the tree. There is
actually no way to make a good long distance saddle with a
shorter tree. You could use an English tree that would be
shorter, but it has no fans at the back to offer the horse
relief there from a seated rider. Over distance with a rider
seated in an English saddle the back DIGS in over the kidney
area. Does not worry the kidneys, despite popular belief, but it
certainly does sore the back muscles on either side of the
spine. English saddles were never designed for distance. They
were designed for high performance over short periods. Security
was never factored into design. (The idea for hundreds of years
has been, if you do it right, good; if you don't, you fall.
That's what you get for not doing it "right"!) The heavier the
rider, and the longer the distance, the greater potential for
sore backs with an English saddle; especially, if the rider
"sits like a sack of potatoes". This problem is very, very
common with dressage horses, that are working only short periods
in a carefully ploughed and surfaced arena. Despite the "cushy"
environment, MOST of them get sore backs, particularly with
riders who do not use their knees to LATERALIZE pressure along
the length of the tree. Riding "heavy" is a common style with
dressage. They say it encourages "impulsion" and "forward
movement". And do doubt it does. The same seat helps Tennessee
Walking horses, but all the saddles WE sell those horses have
the "fans" that extend past and under the seat, so the weight
there is spread out over a larger area, thus dramatically
lowering pounds per square inch. Taken to extremes in shortness
of tree you can go to a jockey saddle that, in my seat size, is
just 18" long. But when I use my jockey saddle on a
steeplechase the horse next day has a sore back, over the
kidneys, and I have been in the saddle less than 30 minutes. And
I actually never SIT in the saddle. But I do weigh 180 lbs. The
measurement of the length of overall LEATHER in a Muster Master
, or most Australian saddles, is certainly longer than the
length of the tree, but it is not relevant, because the leather
is not what is bearing on the horse. It is the TREE that is
bearing on the horse. Leather bends. Leather is there more for
style, than function. You can actually ride a horse with just a
tree. I do it all the time when I am developing saddles. I have
ridden a 16" Muster Master tree (my size) for three hours in a
test, when I was developing this saddle. Killed my backside, but
did not bother the horse. I know this is very, very hard to
understand, but I will explain why length of saddle is not
important. What IS important is fit of saddle. If the leather at
the end of the saddle is digging into the back of the horse,
and rubbing off hair back there (very rare, I might add, in a
saddle that fits) then the saddle is BRIDGING. The solution is
to simply LIFT the underside of the saddle, in the back quarter
of the tree, with , say, a l/2" high-density felt wedge. This
wedge can be inserted by hand, very easily, between the fleece
and the tree, lining up the wedge with the edge of the fleece.
This will lift the saddle off the rear area of the back. I know
this is difficult to understand. Most saddle makers,
particularly Western saddle makers, do not understand it either.
The most common cause of a saddle rubbing off hair at the
back, is BRIDGING, meaning the front and the back of the saddle
is hitting the horse, but the center is not. Again, a felt
wedge fills in this bridge. If a tree is straighter than is the
back of the horse, it does not matter HOW SHORT you make the
tree, it will still bridge. Put a 10" straight rule on the back
of a horse with an average dip, and it will bridge! I have seen
hair rubbed off with a saddle that fits , and does not bridge,
because a bad pad was acting like sandpaper, particular with
horses that have a lot of lateral action when they step out. So,
check the "bridge", estimate the gap there between the back of
the horse and underside of the saddle, and I will send suitable
shims. Also, check the pad being used. Hope this helps,
Colin Dangaard.
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Kate,
I have studied this saddle carefully, and I have studied
your wither tracings, and here is my opinion:
This saddle, being a stuffed panel, will NEVER correctly fit this
horse 100 percent, even if I adjust it.
The saddle is an inexpensive Indian-made model that I would never
sell, simply because I care for the well being of anybody who rides one
of my saddles. I actually stand behind them. The person who sold this
saddle does not. Proof: call them back -- if you can find them .Just a
fact.
The tree in this saddle is very weak. Proof: flip the saddle over,
have somebody with some strength lean down on the leading lower points
of the gullet, and the tree will spread. This is what it will also do
over time, unless it is strengthened. So, here is the solution, if you
want to keep that saddle.
l/ ship the saddle back to me and I will do my best to adjust it.
BUT I WILL NOT GUARANTEE IT WILL WORK. It is the wrong style of Aussie
saddle for your horse. Return shipping from my end, will be $70. The
adjustment fee is $150
2/ I re-weld the gullet, to stop it spreading, which no matter how
much I work on the tree, if I do not strengthen it, it will not stay
true. Cost of welding steel in tree $200.
3/ The strirrups on this saddle are also very weak. They always
break, it is only a matter of time. Do a simple test. Take off the
stirrup, and twist it. It WILL twist. It should not. New stirrups, $59
4/ The girth is also of very poor quality. The good news is it will
probably break before it galls the horse. Let's hope it does not break
when you are riding. New girth $39
The sturrup leathers look OK. But I will not know that for sure
until I see them
The bottom line is I can buy this saddle for $75 from the
manufacturer who supplies them to people who hock them on eBay. But of
course I would never, ever sell a saddle that could possibly cause harm
to a rider. Which is why I URGED you to return the bareback pad for a
refund. You are not a candidate for riding bareback on a round horse.
You WILL fall. Everybody does. And given you existing injuries, I do not
want that responsibility. The very best of riders fall off bareback
pads, myself included, and I am an expert. I win major cross country
races and steeplechase. What you need ahead of everything else is a
firm fitting saddle, and security.
In my opinion it is just not wise to put money into the saddle you
have shown me, and try and make it work on a horse simply because it is
cheap. The costs as I have listed are $518.00. The ultimate cost of
injury however, is far, far greater. .
I can greatly improve the fit of this saddle, but I will need you
to sign a release from any problems or injuries you receive when the
saddle rolls off the horse, which it will, even if it fits, because it
is the WRONG style of saddle for this horse.
Best wishes, and good luck,
Colin
Subject: Re: Bronco Poley
Audrey, your horse is no problem to fit in a Bronco.
That is a very, very popular saddle.
What we need is wither tracings to correctly fit the
horse, and your weight and height and horn
preference so we can correctly fit you. And then we
can proceeed.
We guarantee you will like the saddle, or you can
return it for a full refund, or a free exchange. We
prefer to get wither tracings of the horse, so that
when we send out the saddle it has, by statistics, a
95 percent chance of fitting the horse correcty, and
fitting you correctly. Of that final five percent,
on a second try, we get 95 percent of that
correctly. So, untimately, we fit 98 per cent horses
correctly. We refund about two per cent, because of
all the work we put into a correct fit. Can't t say
the same for people.however, because people have
many more opinions than do horses: like, color,
weight, shape, style, budget, opinions of trainers,
friends, etc., etc. That list could fill a book.
As far as demo saddles go, we do not go there,
because it is a hopless proposition. No point in
trying out a saddle that does not fit YOU correctly,
and fit the horse correctly. Here is the math for
the "demo" program you are suggesting.
'First, we deal in about 20 popular models, out of
some 80 models. There are five seat sizes to every
model. Which means we are now at 400 different
saddles. Then we have half with horns and half with
no horns, so we are now at 800 different "demo"
saddles we would need. Then we have ANY KIND OF
GULLET WIDTH, so if we deciderd to have, say, six
different gullet widths that maybe would fit the
horse we are now at 4,800 saddles. Now, remember
half of our saddles have stuffed panels, for high
withered horses, and half have fleece panels, for
low withered horses, so we are now at 9,600 "demo
saddles I would need to have in stock. Now add to
the equation that half of the saddles are black and
another half are brown, so now the final total of
"demos" saddles I would need to have in stock would
approach 20,000 saddles. To administer the rotation
of 20.000 saddles I would need a staff of, say, 30
people. I would also need to increase by a factor of
ten my warehouse capacity to , say, 100,000
square
feet. Yes, it could be done. But to support all that
I would need to sell you a Bronco Poley not for $595
but for $1,995.00
At this point, I would add, that not one single
location on earth stocks 20,000 Australian stock
saddles. And I am very confident I could not sell
you a Bronco for $1,995.00
We can fit you, and fit your horse, We do it about
200 times a month, have done now for 30 years.
Cheers, Colin D
Subject: Re: Black 12ga belt slides
Barney, of course a 12-gauge will fit in there! We sell
hundreds of those slides a year. Please understand the
nature of LEATHER. If you want the fit loose, simply
soak the slide in water for ten minutes, then insert
12-gauge shells and let it dry and in about one hour,
the cavaity of the leather will be larger. This is
standard procedure for leather cartridge holders. Some
people like them tight, some people like them loose. So
we make them tight to start with. Easy to make them
loose, not so easy to make them tight once they are
loose. You could actually expand the volume of those
loops by about 25 per cent, and of course they would
never hold a 12-gauge. The shell would fall out. The
beauty of leather is that you can make it do just about
anything, as opposed to plastic, of nylon. However,
please return the slide if you do not want it. The slide
is very popular. and we are mostly back-ordered on them.
Cheers Colin D
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Understanding Wedges
Wedge order
Vicky, you need a 1" wedge. This saddle is WAY down in the front on
your Paso .
You have three options here:
l/ Buy a 1" high density wool felt wedge, and place this under the
fornt of the saddle, so it is lifted. The lift wedge is skived off
down both sides, and skived back gradually to zero at 13 inches.
So...you can lift the saddle to the max by using all the wedge, or
you can lift it less by pulling it more forward under the saddle.
Cost $15
2/ Buy a WEDGE BLANKET. This is a navajo blanket, with this 1"
wedge built in. Makes the whole thing more stable. Cost is $175,
Check the website to see what appeals, regarding color.
3/ You ship the saddle back to us and we pull it apart and actually
line the tree with the wedge. Cost $150. You do shipping.
One other thing, and I know you will not want to hear this, but let
me give you the benefit of my life of fitting ALL kind of horses,
now somewhere over 80,000. I have probably fit a thousand Pasos, and
other gaited Spanish-style horses. The saddle should be placed more
forward than you have it in the picture you sent ---PROVIDING IT IS
AT THE RIGHT ANGLE.
The way this saddle is now, it is falling down in the front and
digging in right there. However, when it is lifted, there is
a weight transfer to the BACK of the saddle , thus exerting very
little pressure on the wither and the scapula. Contrary to what you
think, the scapula on this horse moves about 2.5 inches. NOT SIX
INCHES as many Paso owners seem to think. Measure it yourself, if
you do not believe me. Place you finger on the end of the scapula,
have somebody pull the leg forward, and measure the movement. At
full extension of the leg, the scapula will have moved back 2.5
inches. But remember your horse never, ever extends that far, so for
all practical purposes the extension is probably just 2", or less.
This movement is even less relevant when there is little saddle
pressure in that area.
Hope this helps.
Cheers, Colin Dangaard.
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Mary, we have a saddle named the Patrol Poley, but
unscrupulous manufacturers are always trying to pass off
inferior saddles, by stealing our names, and out logo. I
suspect this is NOT one of our saddles, because it does not
have our company name on it,. apparently, and we have NO
saddles with any numbers and/or letters on them. In which
case I would value this saddle at $150. But take what you
can get for it. If it was one of our saddles it would easily
fetch $500 . I would give that much for it on a trade in!
But do not sell this saddle to a friend, because the tree
will probably break. They always do, on those knock-offs.
Feel free to email me a picture, if you wish.
Sorry,
Colin Dangaard.
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